Posted on 10/14/2008
As the nation prepares for the upcoming election, AM talk shows across the country are becoming fervent battlegrounds in the war for undecided voters. Your FM dial, however, is entrenched in a battle of its own: the battle for artists with substance over those with mere marketability. Now, with the most important election of our lives less than a month away, the state of commercial hip-hop may seem more frivolous than ever, but this airwave showdown mustn’t be dismissed at such a dire time. You may find the decisions to be laborious, but be it Obama vs. McCain, or real hip-hop vs. the proverbial studio-gangsta, we all must cast our vote this fall. My fellow Americas, I know what you’re thinking: the last thing you want to have to do is make two decisions in the same year. Well, rest assured, that won’t be necessary. You see, in a twist of timesaving fate, it turns out that the Presidential race and the fight for Urban radio are nearly identical: In both contests, we have on one hand, those currently in control. They’re only on top thanks to money from big corporations. They love guns. They’re all rich. They flaunt their time as prisoners for career advancement. They spent a lot of our money on Hummers. They promote murderous turf wars. They don’t respect women. They can’t rap. They’ve built enormous personal fortunes by exploiting the public. They learned how to sell crack during the Reagan administration. Um, there’s the Polo connection. Basically, on one hand we have more of what got us into this mess.

On the other hand, in both contests we have a voice of change. We have someone whose hard work began in the inner city, where they turned down more lucrative offers in order to put a movement on their back. As their career has grown sharply, they have amassed a legion of supporters throughout the nation. Yet despite their success amongst intellectuals and idealists, they have still yet to reach the black masses from which their careers sprang back in 1992. With hope, however, given the unprecedented spotlight for a man in their position, perhaps the people are finally ready to listen.

This fall isn’t only about Barack Obama; it’s also about an indie legend’s conquest of commercial rap… from the inside out.

Murs for President.


OKP: First and foremost, why are you more qualified than Eric B?

MURS: I never heard Eric B say anything. He has a tremendous amount of street cred, but he’s always been so silent. Having Rakim support you definitely is strong, but I got Snoop and DJ Quik and Kurupt. So, all three of them, at least in my mind, equals Rak—well, at least two and a half Rakims. I know that’s going to be contested, whatever, I’m from the West coast: Rakim’s not such a big deal. I don’t know if we’re from a red state or a blue state speaking hip-hop wise, but yeah I think that’s why I’m more qualified…

Plus, I have to think his term is probably up right about now.

OKP: I would think so, I would think so. Well, you got my vote.

MURS: Thanks. Thanks, Steve.

OKP: So, the album drops tomorrow. I’ve heard you talk about your goal in terms of impact, but with Murs for President, what was your goal musically and artistically? What were you trying to accomplish with this record?

MURS: I was trying to do what I wanted to do, man… for once. Like when I do a record with 9th, 9th picks all the beats. When I do a record with Slug, he kind of dictates. It’s been a while, probably five years, since I had the chance to go in and just choose beats for myself for once, to just do things that I think reflect me, and I was able to record and record—I did like 60 songs for this record. Any idea I had: There’s a punk rock song that didn’t make the record, there’s an electro song that didn’t make the record, I just got to go everywhere to find the pool of songs that it took to complete this record. …I was just trying to find, not really the definitive record, but kind of like: this is me, this is what I’m about, and with all the songs I did, my subversive motive was to get peace and love and just positivity out there in music without it being corny and domineering.

OKP: Just by doing this interview, I can’t help but think back to the intro to End of the Beginning, where you were talking about the end of the beginning, fun stage of your career, and how it was being replaced by all the industry bullshit you were starting to deal with… like interviews. That as 5 or 6 years ago and you were still on an indie, now you’re on Warner Brothers. Compare that feeling to now, did you speak too soon? What’s it been like on a big, huge label like Warner Brothers?

MURS: It’s been different, but it hasn’t been any better or worse than working with Def Jux or Rhymesayers, or anything like that. Everything has its ups and downs. No matter what your jobs is… there’s always something you don’t like about it. There’s new things to not like about this job, but there’s new things to love about the Warner Brothers job. It’s definitely been a great experience… and I think it definitely makes me a complete rapper, because no signed rapper will ever have the knowledge or the experience I have traveling to this point the why I have, and they can’t really go backwards and get it, and now there’s a lot of independent guys that I know that will never know what I’ve now been able to experience. So I think it makes me a more complete musician. I’ve been through …a lot.

OKP: So let me ask you then, at the end of Sweet Lord, you kind of laugh about how your fans know every detail of your life. Is there anything you regret having talked about on record?

MURS: Hmmm. Nah. Not at all.

OKP: Do you draw the line somewhere?

MURS: I try not to dis anybody, man. I really try not to dis people. If we have problems, I’ll see you when I see you… and there’s been rappers that I’ve seen, and we bat it out. You know, I’m not from the streets, but I’m a real dude, so making music about people is not my thing. I’d rather just see you when I see you, or I can be slick about it, and say something that only me and you will know [is] talking about you, but as far as coming out and dissing people, I just don’t. Right now, at this point in my life, I haven’t felt any reason for that negativity [between individuals to be in my music.] When I see you, I can punch you in the face.

But most rappers don’t want to fight anyway. All of the rappers that I’ve ever confronted have never really wanted to fight. …A lot of rappers, they just talk their whole life, but the last fight they were in was in the sandbox or something. They talk a good game, but if you allow a beef to brew—you know it’s just like talking to someone over the phone, or on the internet as I’m sure many Okayplayer people know, you’re allowed to talk a lot of shit— talk yourself into a hole sometimes: when the physical confrontation comes, you feel like you have to live up to something. So, that’s one thing I’ve never done, I’ve never dissed people. It gives me a chance to save face, it gives him a chance to save face, so no one says something they gon’ regret, and we can handle it like men when we see each other.

But I do think it’s entertaining to listen to other people dis each other. I’m just not that kind of guy.

OKP: Going back to being personal, do you find that because you’re willing to be candid so often, that fans take EVERYTHING you say, every story, as being autobiographical, or are you able to escape that?

MURS: No, I think they do. I also think that being so literal, in a way, is bad for me because I’m not as metaphorical as some of my contemporaries. When I make songs so specific, I feel like I alienate people because everything I do is real literal and detailed. But I don’t think—I hope my fans don’t think everything is autobiographical—A lot of it is, but, the kids that have had the courage, or have been nice enough, to come up to me and ask me about certain songs, I would always tell them: All these stories are based on genuine experiences and feelings, its just that I usually, like, if it’s a girl song, I’ll take parts from this girl, and mix it with that girl, so that it’s all true, but…

OKP: It’s not all the same girl.

MURS: It’s not all the same girl. That way no one gets offended.

But then again, I have lost friends over it. Even though I had never written a song specifically about one person, or especially girls—up until this record—people assume that certain parts are about them, and then go off the handle and whatnot. I had one of my best friends breakdown and scream at me, and cry, and said that I ruined her relationship, all this other craziness, over a song that wasn’t even about her. But people assumed it was about her, and they knew she knew me, and they know that I’m, you know, Mr. Storyteller, Mr. Autobiographical… It was a mess.

OKP: You said, ‘Not until this record.’ You talking about the “Break Up”?

MURS: Yeah, oh yeah, all the girl records on this one are pretty much, you know, straight to the point.

OKP: The funny thing is, you might be talking all about one specific girl, but so many people are going to relate to that track. That song is no joke.

MURS: Yeah, thanks. It was good to get out of there, and hopefully [it’s for] good too. I’m single now, and I don’t think we’re ever getting back together. Hopefully she led me to make some good songs for people, because I really don’t like her right now, and I don’t like that I had to go through that.

It is what it is. I’m happy that I made love songs on the record, because rappers don’t make love songs anymore. There’s like 5 in the existence of hip-hop.

OKP: Yeah, basically. Alright, so to switch it up: I saw you at Rock the Bells in Boston this summer, and you were just clearly having a ball up there… and you were talking about what a great life you have to be able to wake up and eat cereal with Mos Def.

MURS: Yeah!

OKP: So, as a fan of hip hop, with that crazy lineup, what do you think was the most surreal moment this summer just hanging out with those guys?

MURS: Man, Q-Tip told me I was dope and almost peed on myself. I think that was definitely a defining moment to me, but just everything, it was all so humbling and exciting. Seeing Q-Tip do his verse to “Buddy.” The shoes that De La Soul had on everyday: pretty fucking amazing. The amazing… congeniality of Jay Electronica, like, constantly the nicest, most respectful human being on the tour. The coolness of The Cool Kids. The fucking comedy of Kidz in the Hall. Um, the spank rock of Spank Rock. Man! It was just a great summer. I can’t nail it down. To say my personal moment was, ‘someone I admired told me I was dope,’ …nah, I don’t want to be selfish: it was all around just a great summer. I wish we could have done more shows and lived on a bus together for a month, it might have been funny.

OKP: You call yourself our favorite rapper’s favorite rapper. Who’s your favorite rapper, you know, right now?

MURS: Um, damn my favorite rapper right now? Wow. I’ll have to just pick my iPhone. Hmmm. I’m always going to answer this question wrong. I mean, everybody likes Wayne. I might have to go with Wayne, or on the off note, I’ve been listening to this kid Terrace Martin, his mixtape. He’s more a producer, but I like his raps too. But my favorite, I don’t know. I can’t have a favorite right now, that’s crazy, that’s a crazy question. But, I’m feeling Kanye too, you know what I mean?

OKP: Yeah. You guys kind of a have a similar, monologue type thing going on. You ever think of working with him?

MURS: I don’t think about it, but if happens, it’d be amazing for MY career. I don’t know what it’d do for him, you know, but I wouldn’t mind, definitely not. But also, it might not be enough variety for everybody if people think we’re similar. Let’s hope he never goes broke, then he’ll be talking about the same shit I’m talking about and we’d be fucked up.

OKP: Back on 3:16 on “And this is for…” you really stuck your neck out and addressed white people’s appropriation of hip-hop. You said some things on there that hadn’t really been addressed yet to that point. Five years later, do you feel any better or worse about the situation as it applies to you getting a fair shot as a black artist? Do you feel like things have evened out a bit, or no?

MURS: Nah I think it’s always gonna be the same. I think everything in that song is still as true now as it was then—And I wasn’t mad about it then. The reason I did that song was because a couple of black rappers were coming out and saying things about MY friends—about El-P and Slug—and so I was like, “Yo, why are you guys mad… at them?” There’s a reason things are the way they are, and there’s no use [in being] upset about them. You just have to kind of accept it, and kind of make the best of it.

[I could keep my head in the independent scene,] but all the Atmosphere fans that are going to be into Murs, are into me now—And it shows, because when I tour with him it’d be sold out, if we tour as Felt it’s sold out, but when I come back by myself those same kids don’t come out to see me: it’s like a third of those kids, and that’s where that song came from. It hurt initially, but then I just had to work some harder. So if Warner Brothers approaches me then I’m going to take that deal, because they will help me get in contact with the fan base that is a little more in tune with the way I look and my experiences. I don’t blame white kids for not being into me, because “Walk Like a Man” is probably nothing like anything they’ve been through, and if they’re not a fan of Ice Cube—there’s certain kids in the suburbs who like Ice Cube or Scarface because they speak with a certain sincerity, but there’s certain kids who, even though Ice Cube is sincere, they don’t share [his] experiences, and they don’t feel it. I think those are the Atmosphere fans, those are the ICP fans, who are like: “I don’t live that shit, it’s not real to me. I’m into Dungeons & Dragons, or I’m into Built to Spill and Dashboard Confessional, and Atmosphere is more my speed.” I need to get to the kids who can identify with something that I’m saying. I’m thankful for ALL my fans; white, black—especially the white and Latino kids right now, because that’s what’s keeping me alive. I’m not one of these rappers that wants to see a bunch of black people in the crowd. I don’t care who comes. I just want intelligent people who are looking to have a good time, and it doesn’t matter. So a lot of white kids think that I dissed white kids on there, and I would never do that. It was more to… some black rappers who were trying to shit on my white friends. I’m like, yo, you can’t be mad at a white kid for feeling a white rapper, it’s what it’s supposed to be now. Just because you were on a major and you got dropped, and now you have to deal with these white kids: that’s your problem. But I was like, I’ll just go to a major, and I’ll find more fans. I’ve found all I can in the underground, and now I want to find some more, elsewhere.

I don’t know, I could talk about that forever. But yeah, it wasn’t a dis, and I think it’s still the same thing. It’s the same way, but really, I’m okay with it, I love it.

OKP: Bottom line, it just really had to be said. That was the elephant in the corner for a while for a lot of people.

MURS: I felt like I was the only one who could say it, because I was the only one that had friends on both sides: I do records with 9th Wonder, and I do records with El-P. Everyone else was speaking out of a place of hatred, and I love both—all—I love HIP-HOP, and I just wanted to set the record straight. It’s not about the white people taking over. It’s not about real niggas not being into hip hop anymore. It’s none of that nonsense. So go out and do your music and be happy that you have a job, and stop looking at the color of the crowd.

OKP: As far a hip hop going the way of jazz, do you think that’s just inevitable? Is there something that could save it from going that way? How do you see it?

MURS: Real hip-hop is going the way of jazz, because people forget that music is to dance to. The more cerebral a music gets, the more you distance yourself from the masses in general. America’s population, I know I’m not correct, but it’s about 12% black, and… a large percentage white. The intellectuals within any mass of people is going to be a small minority, and the intellectuals are the ones that are attracted to cerebral music. So, when you take a minority of a minority… If only 12% of the nation is black, what number of those people in the black community are intellectuals? And considering our education system in the inner city is what it is, how many of those people in the black community do you think want to hear you rap about some scientific shit? Or care about how well you put your verse together? And then if they can’t dance to it, because you’re trying to get scientific on the beats too…

OKP: Plus, it’s just exposure. You’ve got these big companies, Clear Channel or whoever, and they want to see a certain image getting out there.

MURS: Nah, see that’s what I think is completely untrue now that I’m part of the machine: They don’t care. They want to make money, and whatever they think is going to make money, they’re going to do. So, if people decided to start buying intelligent hip hop, then that’s all they would sell, that’s all they would sign. They don’t care what image is out there, they just wanna make money. But it’s up to us as human beings… If we say we’re spending our money here, they’re not going to continue to force us to listen to gangsta rap. It’s when the masses get smart enough—but the masses have always been dumb, so I don’t know where people get off being super intelligent: “They don’t know how to chop this break,” and “Why aren’t niggas feeling it?” It’s because you’re not making music for niggas, you’re making music for music nerds. So when you don’t get a platinum plaque, or a Grammy, or radio spins, it’s not because the industry is wack, it’s because you’re overshooting your fan base. If that’s your attempt then you need to adjust your aim, and maybe make music to slowly educate the masses to bring them up to speed to where you’re at instead of just completely over shooting them or completely dumbing it down. …Complaining that the industry is wack—or it’s Souljah Boy’s fault—is just asinine. Warner Brothers wouldn’t have signed me if they thought—I mean [granted], they signed me AND Mike Jones, but I never once heard my A&R—we have the same A&R—my A&R doesn’t go in the studio and make Mike Jones say anything, or make E-40 say anything, or make me say anything, or make Kweli say anything. These are grown black men acting on their own volition; if they choose to say something about the streets, and something about murder and crack, or getting high and diamonds, it’s not some white man sitting in there making you say it. Man, when I took my record to the president of Warner Brothers, he said I want you to go back and do MORE shit with 9th Wonder.

OKP: Nice.

MURS: Yeah! He said: “You can check out Scott Storch—I’d like to hear how it sounds—but this sounds like you and it sounds like you at your best. When you work with will.i.am and you work with 9th Wonder, I think those are the best songs you do.”

…This is the man who signed Tupac. He [just] knows his music …he’s not into killing the black community and he doesn’t have some grand scheme. He’s there to make Warner Brothers a successful business, kind of like Barack Obama, or John McCain, or whoever it is; they’re not into making poor people, or sucking the life out of third world countries, they’re into making America a successful business. And by any means necessary, because you wanna keep your job. And it’s not Tom Whalley’s responsibility—It’s NO executive’s responsibility to take care of the black community. It’s the black community’s—it’s the hip-hop community’s responsibility. We stop buying the shit, they’ll stop selling it. Point blank. That’s supply and demand: it’s basic economics. All this mysterious shit about one man in an office masterminding a scheme to destroy our people is bullshit. We’re destroying ourselves. There’s no accountability in current America. Just be accountable for your actions. Be a responsible, thinking adult. That’s all it takes. I’m just really tired of, especially white America, babying black America and the black male, saying it’s okay, 400 years ago this happened, and now it’s still okay for you to wear your pants at your knees and make babies, and be irresponsible with your dick, and with your guns, and with your tongues, and with your music. It’s not okay anymore, man. We have to start blaming ourselves, and looking at each other saying what the fuck are we going to do?

So what I said was, I’m gonna go to a major label and make a decent record and have them put some money behind that and have me put on MTV so that for 30 seconds a day, somebody is saying something positive. So it’s not only Kweli, Lupe, and Kanye, it’s Kweli, Kanye, Lupe, Murs, Mos… and people don’t see it, and people wanna hate on it, but we’re slowly advancing. We all sit around and condemn MTV, and it’s not gonna go anywhere. Just use whatever medium you have; that’s the spirit of hip hop. Use whatever you have. Motherfuckers didn’t have instruments so they started using turntables, you know what I mean? Use what you have to get your message out there. [Use MTV.] It doesn’t matter… you can refine it later.

OKP: That’s what’s up. So, speaking of 9th Wonder, he’s got maybe 3 tracks on the new album. It is a different approach with him doing that versus you two making a whole album together?

MURS: Nah, it’s the same approach. We did Sweet Lord, and Tom Whalley at Warner Brothers played it and said, “I want that record, and I want this song and this song.” And I was like, “Well, you gotta take the whole record.” And, so he’s, you know: “Well, I don’t want you to put out a whole 9th Wonder record because that’d be the same thing you did last time. I want you to do something a little different, so I just want this song off the record then.” And I’m like “We’re-not-going-to-break-up-the-record. But we can bring him out here and do some more songs.” I’m like, fuck it: “Put him on a plane. Bring his wife. Bring him out here.”

OKP: So then is this record the first time the two of you were not recording in 9th’s house?

MURS: Yeah. I mean, we don’t always record in his house, but this was the first time we didn’t record in North Carolina, so I was nervous. But 9th was like, “Man, it’s me and you, we’re gon’ be fine.” His mom came down, my girlfriend at the time came down, and we just hung out in the studio for like 5 days and did 5 new songs. “Love and Appreciate II” was initially on Sweet Lord, so we just switched songs with “Oooh Baby I Love the Way.” We did 5 new songs, and three of those got heard, and there’s some that didn’t… I mean, it’s awesome; it’s always good working with 9th. The song “Breakthrough,” the last song on the record, my mom wanted to see what he does, and see what I do, so he kind of made it and while he was making it I wrote it, and she just watched the whole thing. We recorded it in like an hour.

OKP: Speaking of recording in North Carolina, here’s one thing I’ve always been curious about. You did an album with 9th, and Buckshot did an album with 9th, and you both ended up with the whole Justus League on the record. Is that a case of you showing gratitude to 9th, and so you put his people on? Or is it 9th showing gratitude to you for reaching out like that, and so he made sure you got the whole package? I’ve always been curious how that worked out.

MURS: Nah, he just told me. See when we first did 3:16 I had never even met Phonte, and 9th just told me: “Alright, this song’s going to be called ‘The Animal,’ and it’s with you and Phonte.” I’m like, “Oh, okay.” He would have it filled in for me when I get there. “Okay this one’s for you and Pooh, and then this one’s for you and Joe Scudda.” “Okay.”

OKP: And you were saying he picks the beats on those projects? So, he usually just says, “We’re doing these ten tracks.” and that’s that?

MURS: Yeah. Well, there’s usually 15 and we take the best 10. And sometimes he’s like: “But hey, this needs to be about this,” or “Tyler’s singing the hook on this, it’s going to be about this, and you need to rap about girls,” or I’ll write to one beat and he’ll be like, “No, you need to do it to this beat.” He’s the boss, man. A lot of rappers have too much ego to be properly produced, and a lot of producers don’t have enough stats to really produce, like in the same vein as Quincy Jones or George Clinton, or Dr. Dre or Puff Daddy. But if you let 9th do it… He never steered me wrong. I mean, we disagree, I think some things could have been better, but he’s never told me something where I regretted it, so I just listen.

OKP: You ever miss that old snare?

MURS: You know, I don’t even know what people are talking about. I’m so a-musical, man. Somebody came up to me [in nasally voice]: “You know he used the same snare on your whole record?” I don’t know, and I don’t care!

OKP: Well, hey, I love that shit!

MURS: [laughing]

OKP: So yeah, I don’t care either. I like it. I like that snare. Let me ask you this then, what’s your take on posthumous Dilla collaborations? Are people turning their back on him and not using his beats? Is it respectful not to use his beats? What if you hadn’t actually worked with him? There’s been a lot of chatter, what’s your take on all that?

MURS: All respect to the man, but I don’t care. I’m not into all that [music]. I’m a fan of J Dilla, the rapper, but I’m really a-musical. I’m not really into production, so I can’t even speak on that debate. I don’t listen to most of the stuff that—I listen to gangsta rap. I grew up in L.A., man. I’m not really into the whole neo-soul whatever the fuck shit that shit is. So, I’m not qualified to speak on that. I respect him as a great producer, I think Fantastic Vol. 2 is great album, and I think Donuts is amazing, but other than that, I have no opinion. I have no ties to his family or to any of his crew. I have no allegiance, you know?

OKP: Yeah, that’s interesting.

MURS: But I don’t know… I get in a lot of arguments because I have my opinion about who I think the best producer is and all that other stuff.

OKP: Such as?

MURS: I mean, I think 9TH is the best. I know this is going to be debated… but [that’s what] I think if you honestly lay it on the table. He’s relevant in the black community—and I’m not talking about stuff people have ghost produced for Dre. Beats with his name have been played in the hood, he has a Grammy, he has platinum records, he has Jay-Z, Mary J. Blige, Erykah Badu, Destiny’s Child, a number one single with Destiny’s Child, a Grammy with Mary J. Blige, and then all the underground respect in the world from Little Brother, myself, Buckshot, Jean Grae, Skyzoo, and the list goes on. There’s no producer that is as diverse, AND has succeeded. People have had beats on top people’s albums, but he’s had hit records in every scene, in every genre of black music. And I think a lot of people come down on 9th… but the fact remains that his stats, you can’t really fuck with ‘em. Now as far as SoundScan and all that stuff, whatever, but I’m talking about milestones and achievements. He’s made people—like the white kids, the Atmosphere fans, my fans love certain beats that he did. The Mexican kids in L.A. love “L.A.,” and you can go to the bottoms of Miami somewhere in the projects and someone will love “Girl” by Destiny’s Child. To me, that shows diversity and the greatness of a producer.

OKP: Plus, you couldn’t ask for a nicer guy either…

MURS: Yeah he’s good people, but also I’m biased: that’s my friend, you know what I mean?

OKP: Yeah? You guys kick it when you’re not recording and all that?

MURS: Yeah, actually. Whenever he comes out to L.A. Or sometimes I’ll fly out to wherever they’re having True School parties. So definitely… We just hang out. Whenever he’s in town recording with someone else he’ll give me a call and… we’ll just ride around and chill. And I spent thanksgiving with his family. We were recording then, but yeah.

OKP: Speaking of L.A. you talk about the Bloods and Crips quite often. …The city I’m from has always had a major problem with gangs, but now like a lot of East coast cities there’s a Bloods and Crips dimension to it. I remember reading a quote somewhere talking about how the saddest part about the Bloods and Crips expanding like they have, is that the kids on the East coast who get caught up in it are not just killing each other over street corners, but now its partly over L.A. streets that they’ve never even be to. Given your perspective, what’s your take on all that?

MURS: It’s really disappointing, it’s very unfortunate, it’s hard for me to respect, and there’s a lot of rappers that encourage it too. If you’re 30 years old, you don’t join a gang. If you’re over 21, and you haven’t been in a gang, you should have never joined a gang. …In America, gangs were organizations built to protect immigrants and impoverished communities from being taken advantage of, but now, a lot of gangs aren’t even getting money like they used to. Especially in L.A… they think it’s cute. They think they have dances… but the gang bangers I know were originally about getting money, and also protecting their neighborhood. To me, my homies are more valuable than the police, because I know if I get taken advantage of by some other gang member, I know that [my homies are] there to have my back. Police in L.A. don’t show up until after somebody got shot. But all that’s to say that I’m part of my neighborhood and I have friends that gang bang, and I never chose to gang bang. So if you didn’t grow up with it, and you’ve just seen it on TV, or you traveled to the West coast and you hung out with your cousin and you moved back to Rochester, NY, and you wanna start a gang, it’s really hard for me to respect that, because you’re encouraging genocide. You’re encouraging murder. To me that’s just the simplest, uncoolest thing you can do. I don’t know, I mean, who wants to kill people? That’s what Bloods and Crips are about if you didn’t know; they’re about murdering each other. [But] if you never dealt with it, you think it’s cool. If you’ve never been to a funeral for a homie who got shot, you probably should check yourself if you’re going to be the one to start the gang, and before you join a gang you should think about that, and for me at 20 something years old you should know fucking better. It’s about going to jail, and it’s about murdering people—at that point, if you join at 20—If you join in your teenage years it could be about protection, and your need to feel safe, and your need to belong, and your daddy wasn’t there, but by 20 something you should have fucking worked out all those issues. There’s no fucking excuse. And damn, if not by 30 god damnit?! Get it together! You’re just a blight on humanity at that point.

OKP: That’s the truth… Alright, can you talk to me about Basquiat? I don’t know if I’m going out on a limb here, but your hair, that’s got to be a nod to him in some of these press photos I see. Is that the case?

MURS: His hair has nothing to do with my hair; it has to do with my admiration for the Rastafarian culture, and an Ethiopian friend of mine named Henok, who had locks when I had locks when I was younger… He had what I have now… and I was like, damn, if I ever cut my hair and grow ‘em again, I’m just gonna grow them like that—I’mma grow ‘em right. …Plus for me, it’s a symbol of life. No matter what circumstances you’re going into, you don’t have control over everything, you just gotta go with it, and rock it. This is your life. I’m an underground rapper who raps about gang violence in my neighborhood, but my fans are Atmosphere fans, and I could complain about it, or I could just rock it. …You can succeed with anything. Ultimately, that’s what “Looking Fly” on the album is about. People make fun of my hair, I see how they berate it on the internet, but if I show up in my car, with the girls that I meet… That’s why I really don’t pay attention… Do you think I care? I’ve always been this way, I’ve always been the weirdo, I’ve always been picked on, and it’s just funny to see the same juvenile attitude graduate to the internet, and 30 year old men posting about my hair at work is phenomenal to me, but it’s great, I love it.

So yeah, my hair has nothing to do with Basquiat, but I do love Basquiat, and I really wish we could have another. He’s the only black person that’s considered a fine artist in the world—in the history of the world. So, if my hair helps someone discover Jean-Michel, I think that’s great, because I would love to have one more great visual artist come out, since they’re just now starting to respect graffiti. There should be one more African American great painter, or just African, whatever.

But yeah, I respect Basquiat, I love Basquiat, but I didn’t grow my hair to look like Basquiat; it’s my boy Henok… I always admired him… It takes a lot confidence and courage to wear your hair in its natural form. This is how my hair naturally is. I don’t put hair spray in it. I don’t have to do shit…

OKP: Have Christina Ricci or Lisa Bonet ever acknowledged their tributes?

MURS: Hell no. But hopefully with Felt 3 though we’ll pick a winner.

OKP: Who’s next?

MURS: I can’t say.

OKP: Okay, but there is a third one. What about with the Legends? What’s the future with you and them, and is it even feasible to cut a check nine ways like that in today’s game?

MURS: We do Living Legends because it’s not for the money. But, all I can say about that is my lifestyle has differed from a lot of their lifestyles and it’s really difficult to bring all those lifestyles together. It’s just hard, so I don’t know. I love each and every one of them to death, they are my brothers ‘til the end, I can’t change that. But that’s why family reunions are once a year… they’re not every month.

OKP: Oh, I gotta ask you one more… I emailed my boy from high school who first made me check you out way back when, and I said the least I could is let him ask you something. So, Murs, how’d you ended up on that Terror album?

MURS: Hahahahaha. I’m glad he knows that!! Um, man! Scott and those guys are big hip-hop fans. I think they knew Mr. Dibbs. Mr. Dibbs told them he knew me. They said “No way,” and Dibbs just called me. Thing is, I’m real particular with who I do songs with, so I don’t really do songs with anybody. I usually don’t do songs for money. I have to know you, but Dibbs said they wanted to do a song with me… Dibbs is O.G. to me, and me and Dibbs would get in like real life street situations, back against the wall, where we had to thrown down, that type of shit. So if someone like that tells me you’re solid—I’m of gang culture, so I’m loyal like that. He was like, my boys need you and it’d be a good look if you could do this on my call, and I was like, you got it. I went to go kick it with them. I went to their place in the Valley, and they said, “Why don’t you do a song about L.A.?” and I’m like, shit, I love rapping about L.A. We started talking about how they’re from L.A. and their experiences, and what they’re into, and their scene, and they’re just cool as fuck. Me and Scott used to keep in touch, and actually, Scott did some screaming for the new record but that song didn’t make the record. It’s a dope song, and I tried to put it on my record, ‘cause I felt more kids should give hardcore a chance.

OKP: Is that track going to see the light of day?

MURS: Not in hip hop, because we pay the producer. The producer wants an obscene amount of money.

OKP: Ah, who did it?

MURS: Um, I don’t know… Not an obscene amount of money obviously, but he wants money… Me and Scott and everybody will find a way to work together again without having to use samples.

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There you have it folks, words from the campaign trail. Many thanks to Murs. Be sure to vote. Support good music: Murs for President is in record stores now.

For more from M. Steve Hammer, visit the OKP Reviews.