Posted on 10/02/2007

Midway through 1993, between the releases of Daily Operation and Hard to Earn, Guru delivered the first Jazzmatazz album. Backed by the suits at Chrysalis Records and the seemingly immobile power of the Gang Starr brand, Jazzmatazz's fusion of hip-hop and jazz planted Guru alongside intensely organic grooves, warm melodies and established the Boston-born, New York-based rapper as a musical curator as well as an MC.

The idea that Mr. Baldhead Slick put the compilation together out of anything other than a sense of love was impossible. 15 years and three Jazzmatazz volumes later, that sentiment still remains.

But there hasn't been a Gang Starr album in four years, Guru has since teamed with producer Solar, and the major label support has vanished (voluntarily, you'll soon see,) in favor of Guru and Solar's own independent, 7 Grand Records.

With the fourth installment in the Jazzmatazz series, The Hip Hop Jazz Messenger - Back to the Future, the duo have delivered a refreshing take on the same ol' jazz thing, but this time, they've done it all by them damn selves. And that makes them proud, as it should - but it also makes things difficult, as you might expect.

Okayplayer linked up with Guru and Solar and discussed these difficulties as well as a heap of other things - bodyguards, fast-food workers, and the sadness of selling one's soul for mass appeal.

OKAYPLAYER: You mention that Jazzmatazz represents a style of music, thought, and attitude. Describe what you mean.

GURU: In '93 when the concept was first put together, it came out of everyone sampling jazz and a lot of producers digging in the crates and finding jazz records. I wanted to take it to the next level and actually get the jazz cats who we sample to come into the studio and jam over some hip hop beats. Then get world class vocalists and bring it all together. In doing that, it formed it's own musical genre. At the basis you have hip-hop and jazz, but as it evolved, it takes on elements of soul, elements of R&B, elements of funk, elements of reggae, even rock and roll. It defines itself. It has it's own kind of swagger when compared to any other types of music or aspects of hip-hop or R&B or soul or etc.

SOLAR: The whole idea behind Jazzmatazz was, at that time, it was to get those musicians that were being sampled and to introduce them to a whole new audience - the hip-hop audience. That still holds true. Not only with Jazzmatazz, but 7Grand records is on a mission to re-establish ties to the younger generation. They've gotten so far past it, these corporations think that they don't want to hear real music. But come to our concerts and you'll see heads who are too young to drink but they're coming to our concerts and enjoying the music. I don't believe that any corporation has the right, or that these so-called hip hop producers have the right, to tell children they can't listen to something intelligent. That they can't listen to beautiful, strong brothers like Guru and Solar who are talking intelligently, as opposed to how many cars you got, how many broads you stickin'. It's real music. It's about music.

OKP: Why did you title the album "Back to the Future?"

G: In the whole concept of the album musically, you definitely get that real hip-hop feel, but there's definitely a futuristic aspect as well with Solar's sound. The title is also represented by the features. Everyone from a Bob James and a Ronnie Laws to a Talib Kweli and Bobby Valentino. You've got the past, present, and future actually.

OKP: Are there any new artists, people coming out now, who you think embody what Jazzmatazz represents?

G: I see a lot of people delving in those areas, but i think Jazzmatazz is kinda in a class by itself.

OKP: Who are some of the people delving into those areas?

G: This isn't new, but Santana's project "Supernatural" was definitely something like Jazzmatazz, except he reversed it. The musicians were getting the vocalists, but it was very similar.

S: As far as modern artists, there's not a lot of them right now.

G: There were some rappers delving into it. Like Madlib. But in general, I would say no new artists really.

S: I would say that today's music doesn't lend itself to Jazzmatazz. You know what's on the radio all day and all night. It's drum machines and keyboards. It's not on the same plane. These producers or whatever, they're not on the same musical plane that I'm on. Whether it's good or bad or whatever, I'm in a whole 'nother class as a producer.

G: I agree. Solar is so advanced in some aspects of production that even some of the early critics were thinking that they were samples. And there are no samples on the album.

OKP: So what's next as far as 7 Grand the record label is concerned?

S: We're focused on Jazzmatazz. We're doing very well, but we're not even really looking too much further than Jazzmatazz. 7 Grand Records, we don't have multi-million dollars in marketing. We're on the road now. We stay on the road. And when you're on the road, you're on your own. All over the earth, all over the United States on tour. So you gotta remember that these people who came on this album had the love and the belief that me and Guru could oversee them. So the goal right now for 7 Grand, for Guru and Solar, is to make Jazzmatazz the record that it needs to be. It's going to take a little bit more time than the average release that has a multi-million dollar marketing machine behind it.

G: Definitely. We're working on it right now. We have the video and single out, 'State of Clarity,' featuring Common and Bob James. The video was brilliantly directed by Solar. It's an animated video. Something totally new for the hip-hop scene. And it's something accessible to the kids, but not corny. It's been playing everywhere from Fuse to MTV2 to BET J.

S: And that's definitely interesting. We have a video on BET J that's rated very, very cool. And at the same time, we've got a video on a teenager's network. That's very positive.

G: And we just shot a joint with T3 from Slum Village. We've got 'Cuz I'm Jazzy' with Slum Village, that's the next video to drop. More touring. You never know what you're gonna see with us live cuz we've got different configurations for when we perform our live shows.

OKP: Can you tell me some more about the differences, the positives and negatives, of running your own label now as opposed to being signed to a major?

G: In a two album period, two year period, we've worked with everyone. You look at the features on the current Jazzmatazz and our first album - "Guru Version 7.0, Street Scriptures" - there's at least four Grammy nominees and a couple of winners in that two year period. For me, it's the creative control, obviously. 7 Grand was born out of the fact that i was looking for creative freedom and ownership. It's a great feeling and it's a lot of hard work, but at the end of the day, the creative buck stops here and that's important. Especially at this stage in my career.

OKP: Since starting the label, how much of the time has been spent handling business and how much of it has been spent working on music? Is it hard to create a balance?

G: I've gotten used to just doing it all so you can't really say which one is more. It's multitasking and kinda interchangeable. It kinda all goes in together.

S: Let's put it this way: Guru and I, we basically dwell and live in the studio, you know? That's why you won't pick up these rags - cuz that's what they are, they're garbage, these magazines - you won't pick up these rags and see us at all these parties and stuff because we're working! You could really consider us as the hardest working men in show business right now. Guru and Solar are the hardest working men in hip-hop. We're working class hip-hop. If you looked at it on a societal level, we'd be the middle income of hip-hop. We don't have all those things that other guys have, but you know what? At the end of the day, I don't want it. Those dudes are the worst things that have ever happened to hip-hop, to music, and to the world. That's a fact. And they know who they are.

OKP: Are you speaking about anybody in particular?

S: See, that's the problem. They all say the same things so there's no point in singling anybody out. None of them are different. They all rap about the same things. All they do is brag about what they got, and it's disgusting.

G: If you look at my body of work lyrically, I never really name names anyway. I've always been that type of rapper than can creatively describe the type of person that I'm talkin' about, and if the shoe fits, wear it. That's my style of rhyme. That's synonymous with Guru as an MC.

OKP: Solar, you've mentioned that with Jazzmatazz 4, you wanted the world to come back to New York and look at the city as the birthplace of jazz and of hip-hop. But the album doesn't really have a lot of overtly obvious New York references.

S: What I try to tap into is the origins of hip-hop and the intelligence of the people. People forgot how intelligent hip-hop was. The people were intelligent. Shit is coming off stupid now. People were not rich, they were not wealthy. So we created hip-hop in New York for those who didn't have money and all these things and it emanated from our experiences. So I'm going to take it to the next level by introducing new concepts and new intelligence. New world-wide elements. I'm not trying to beat anybody over the head with what I'm doing. But let's raise the standards. Raise the bar. Raise it to the next level where it can't be ignored. For Guru and myself, worldwide success is not based on corporations. You can't call these people professionals because they're not! Corporations are backing them. The people aren't backing them. It's corporate music. It's not hip-hop, it's corporate-hop. Guru and Solar are real music. Real hip-hop. And we're respected around the world.  When people show up to sold-out concerts to see Guru and Solar, they're showing up because of Guru and Solar. Not because of anybody in any multi-million dollar marketing machine. It's real. We are sold out everywhere we go. That's a fact. Around the world. But we're not going to big stadiums and we're not doing big venues because these dudes are trying to shut us out.

G: Same with radio. It's the same thing.

S: There's the idea that people want to stay stupid. But I'm telling you right now, people don't want to stay stupid! That's a fact.

G: The dot-com's and what not, they're important because that is where the discerning music listeners go.

S: I've been blessed, if you want to call it that, to have friends who are multimillionaires. Some of the wealthiest families on planet Earth. You know how much they brag about their money? Zero. And they got more of it than all of these dudes put together. That's real, coming from God Solar. I know very, very wealthy powerful people. They don't brag about their money. So if wealthy people were to consider what these guys are doing, they'd consider it low-class. It's low-class to brag about what you got. You're talking about people who starved and have been abused for hundreds of years in America. We were slaves in this country. We were beaten and tortured. And these dudes can get anything and everything they ever wanted. And now that you get it, you wanna torture your own people with what they don't have? We love that kid who works for McDonald's. We love that young brotha who goes into Wendy's or Burger King and has to work. We know how hard it is to do that with these guys calling them names and tellin' them they're wack because they can't afford a multi-million dollar chain lifestyle. It's ridiculous. We're some brothers that are about loving the people again and teaching the people something good. Hip-hop has always been about that, but these dudes have misled everybody. Not everybody's gonna want it, but trust me, there's people out there who do want it and who need to hear it.

G: Positive, creative, effective leadership. And the thing is, over the last years, we've heard all of the complaints. 'Hip-hop needs this, it doesn't have that, hip-hop is dead, blah blah blah.' And at the end of the day here it is: you have 7 Grand. We're representing something different. Something that creates a balance and that is at the forefront of classic change. There's always been change in hip-hop. There's always been those who are at the forefront of it.

S: It's been a blessing to have a media outlet like Okayplayer to talk to us, because these other dudes aren't talking to us. They literally boycott us, if you can believe that. Look at Scratch magazine. Take a look at the artists who I've worked with and then ask yourself why i haven't been featured in Scratch magazine. But they feature hip-hop producers who don't have a fraction, not a fraction, of my discography. And ask yourself, 'is that the way that it should be?' And then think if you want to be a part of it. Whether you want to be a part of not letting the world decide for themselves. Let the people decide for themselves.

G: Even with our first release in 2005 it was very similar. There was people who tried to comment about it and didn't really listen to it, and then ones who criticized it and had great praise. The couple of articles we had in major publications were talking about, 'the sound is something that could break the radio matrix,' and that 'Guru's reinvented himself with Solar and a new sound.' It was very, very positive. But at the same time, there was still that industry hate. And you know what? It is what it is. At the same time, the people are going to ultimately decide. The music is for the people, it's not for industry heads who get up on the wrong side of the bed and get mad because they can't control everything.

OKP: Has that always been the case in hip-hop? Gang Starr started what, like 20 years ago. Did you feel the same way about the industry then?

G: I definitely did. But I feel it even more now. It's gotten worse instead of better, industry wise. I'm not one to just complain or whatever, so I'm going to provide what I feel is the solution. Me and Solar.

S: Would you like to hear a story about a meeting we had at a major label two years ago? We go into an unnamed major label with a major A&R who's signed major talent who's out right now. We played tracks from Street Scriptures, and within a couple of minutes, he asked Guru if he'd be willing to do 'Lean Back' or 'Drop It Like It's Hot.' And I love Pharrell and I love Storch. They're great producers and they're great artists. But Guru's career was never based on anything like that. So for him to tell Guru, 'this is what you need to do,' and that's what he said, to get a deal with that major...Guru and I said, 'thanks but no thanks,' and walked out. This is not what Guru's about. That to me is what the fans love about Guru. They know Guru could have sold out for the money and could have gone that other route. But he didn't go. We stay true to what we believe is the core of hip-hop. Not unlike 'The Matrix' where they're trying to protect life. We're protecting the core of what's good about hip-hop.

G: Gang Starr never went platinum and this and that. There's always been an underground aspect. I'm an underground king. And here we have 7 Grand that actually embodies those principles that Gang Starr represented. Street knowledge, intellect, spirituality, and taking things to new heights. And I want to say for the record: Big ups to the real, true Gang Starr fans who are supporting Solar and I, 7 Grand Records, and the movement that we're on. In the beginning, there was a select few haters, not true Gang Starr fans, who were just trying to stir up some shit because they were afraid of change and of growth. And this is all about growth. In rock and roll and other forms of music, my favorite artists were always able to reinvent themselves. And when they did and they came with something hot, it was always embraced and documented as opposed to what they're trying to throw at us. At the end of the day, we're still here, we're gonna be here, and we're gonna keep growing.

S: You know what's interesting? We could live their lives any day. I could do with a couple of Lamborghinis and so forth, no problem. Let them try and live the lives of me and Guru.

G: Let them make the sacrifices we made. Let them be as dedicated and as true as we are.

S: All for the love of the music. Let's see if they'll do that.  

OKP: What's the motivation to keep it going that way? Is there a clear cut thing that keeps you doing what you're doing?

S: 7 Grand is a huge motivation. After me and Guru leave the physical, 7 Grand will still be here. And it's not just music - it's music with a message and with a goal. We've seen this before like with Bob Marley. We've seen it with Bruce Lee. The movement they're left behind. We've seen it with Muhammad Ali - a great leader who stayed true to his beliefs. So you're seeing it again now with Guru and Solar.

G: Motivation is the love of the art form. The love of the music. The love of the culture. Love period.

S: Love will always overcome hate. While these dudes talk about hate, let's talk about how much love there is for Guru and Solar. That's why we don't need bodyguards. Never had them and never will. The people love us and we love the people. These other people, they have to have bodyguards and they know why.

OKP: You worked with such a wide variety of people on this album, just like all the Jazzmatazz albums. What's the whole process with putting the songs together? You make the beats and think, 'so and so would sound good over this?' How does everything come into place?

G: We made about 40-something songs and kinda narrowed them down. We each came up with suggestions of who should be on what. Jazzmatazz represents the art of collaboration. That's an art in itself as opposed to, 'let's get this person on the album because they sold a lot of records and they'll help us sell a lot of record,' or, 'we need part of this person's fan-base so we should get this person on the record.' These collaborations are naturally put together and come together through mutual respect for each other's work. Once we had a track and picked who we wanted on it, we reached out to people through various networks and everyone we reached out to replied in the affirmative without any hassle. It's because they had a respect for the Jazzmatazz legacy and what it represents. That's a beautiful thing, and it really makes me proud. Once solar hit them with the tracks - and he didn't hit them with a bunch of tracks, he made one track per person - each person responded like, 'yo, when can we schedule a recording?' Everybody loved what they heard and wanted to be involved. I'm very, very extra proud of this one as opposed to the other three volumes because it was done ourselves independently without the major label machine behind it. To have one that stands up to, or surpasses the other three, that makes me that much more proud. We did it ourselves.

S: The sales for an independent record...it's been phenomenal. We're selling strong, believe it or not, in physical CD's. They said CD's were dead, but we're doing very, very well in physical CD's right now. Not by 50 Cent standards, but by independent hip-hop standards? We're doing phenomenal. So big up to all the heads out there who went out and bought the CD and supported. Especially the college heads. College heads have been extremely supportive of this record.

G: And even those in that age group who aren't able to go or who chose not to go to college, that is definitely a group of people and music lovers who have a strong voice in what goes on. Purchasing a CD such as a 7 Grand product is like making a vote for part of this positive change. We support the intelligent exchange of information so that this culture and this music can thrive.

OKP: Is there anybody in particular you have in mind who you'd like to work with again? Or is there anyone you haven't worked with yet who you'd love to?

G: There's a lot of people. That's the beauty of Jazzmatazz - each time there's another star-studded cast. I'd say that people will have to wait and see. We're thoroughly immersed in promoting this album because each track is an entity itself. You can get immersed in 'State of Clarity' featuring Common and Bob James and then not realize there's a song featuring Kem that's next level, or the Caron Wheeler song 'Kiss the World.' Or the Dione Farris song.

S: Check the Myspace and look at the comments. You know how many young heads have said 'thank you' for us telling them to be themselves? Young heads who are asking questions like, 'who am I?' 'How do I identify myself?' We're the ones who are talking to them. That's real. These are young people who are asking themselves, 'should I be myself or should I be what someone else wants me to be?'

G: That's always what true hip-hop represented. That's what true hip-hop did for me. It helped me define me. So here we are.

 

- Mike Gadd